Calif. AG urges court to void gay marriage ban.
SAN FRANCISCO - The California attorney general has changed his position on the state's new same-sex marriage ban and is now urging the state Supreme Court to void Proposition 8.
In a dramatic reversal, Attorney General Jerry Brown filed a legal brief saying the measure that amended the California Constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman is itself unconstitutional because it deprives a minority group of a fundamental right. Earlier, Brown had said he would defend the ballot measure against legal challenges from gay marriage supporters.
But Brown said he reached a different conclusion "upon further reflection and a deeper probing into all the aspects of our Constitution.
"It became evident that the Article 1 provision guaranteeing basic liberty, which includes the right to marry, took precedence over the initiative," he said in an interview Friday night. "Based on my duty to defend the law and the entire Constitution, I concluded the court should protect the right to marry even in the face of the 52 percent vote."
Brown, who served as governor from 1975 to 1983, is considering seeking the office again in 2010. After California voters passed Proposition 8 on Nov. 4, Brown said he personally voted against it but would fight to uphold it as the state's top lawyer.
He submitted his brief in one of the three legal challenges to Proposition 8 brought by same-sex marriage supporters. The measure, a constitutional amendment that passed with 52 percent of the vote, overruled the state Supreme Court decision last spring that briefly legalized gay marriage in the nation's most populous state.
Shannon Minter, legal director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, called the attorney general's change of strategy "a major development."
"The fact that after looking at this he shifted his position and is really bucking convention by not defending Prop. 8 signals very clearly that this proposition can not be defended," Minter said.
The sponsors of Proposition 8 argued for the first time Friday that the court should undo the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters banned gay marriage at the ballot box last month.
The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief telling the court that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions.
"Proposition 8's brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions," reads the brief co-written by Kenneth Starr, dean of Pepperdine University's law school and a former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton.
Both Brown and gay rights groups maintain that the gay marriage ban may not be applied retroactively.
Starr's co-counsel Andrew Pugno said Brown's decision to challenge the voter-approved measure and the argument advanced by the attorney general was "totally unprecedented."
"His legal duty as attorney general of the state is to defend initiatives passed by the voters," he said.
The state Supreme Court could hear arguments in the litigation in March. The measure's backers announced Friday that Starr had signed on as their lead counsel and would argue the cases.
Continue to write letters to State officials and we will continue to win people over!
Letters to State Legislature members by the thousands!
A man without a vote is man without protection.
A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people.
I don't possess a lot of self-confidence. I'm an actor so I simply act confident every time I hit the stage. [WeHo resident]
I do not "act straight" because I am a gay man.
And damn proud to be a gay man!
When one thinks they have found their other 'half' does not mean they are ready for marriage. Come back in a year or two and see if you are still together and even if you have the same set of friends. Highly unlikely in the gay community. Finding someone you truly 1000% love and forsake all others is not finding another half but two whole finding one another. Forever.
Marriage in the 21st Century between two people is more challenging that ever in history. Throw in the challenges of being Gay, then that complicates all the issues a hundred times over.
When people find one another and make not only a marriage, but indeed a 'home' and that relationship works for many years, then that is when one is really to commit to forever. If one feels they have indeed found the right person for the rest of their life, then give it a shot for a few years before tying the proverbial knot.
Gay men are like hummingbirds, they go from flower to flower seeking and sucking out the nectarine and move along to the next flower to see if they can find something better.
Please don?t be so Black and white state of mind about Gay marriage (Prop 8) with a
Yes and Not answer.
Prop 8 is not just a statement or the latest gay accessory. It?s more complicated than that; the million dollar question is: Are you ready to be responsible and committed to somebody? And stop that stupid mentality of Drugs-Sex and Disco. If you answer is yes!!! Let?s do something about it!
But if you are not sure about your answer or your answer is not! I think we are not ready.
I have been lucky and I found my other haft and we committed but take more that a small group of community to be ready for that.
Guys! We have to be focus and we have to be responsible and committed, and again moderation is the key.
Calif. gay marriage ban driven by religion
Voters' economic status and religious convictions played a greater role than race and age in determining whether they supported the Nov. 4 ballot measure outlawing same-sex marriage in California, a new poll shows.
The ban drew its strongest support from both evangelical Christians and voters who didn't attend college, according to results released Wednesday by the Public Policy Institute of California.
Age and race, meanwhile, were not as strong factors as assumed. According to the poll, 56 percent of voters over age 55 and 57 percent of nonwhite voters cast a yes ballot for the gay marriage ban. [This begs the point to be nicer to old people if you want their support, as previously discussed as age bias in the gay community, including your straight older gay neighbors!]
People who identified themselves as practicing Christians were highly likely to support the constitutional amendment, with 85 percent of evangelical Christians, 66 percent of Protestants and 60 percent of Roman Catholics favoring it.
The poll also showed that the measure got strong backing from voters who did not attend college (69 percent), voters who earned less than $40,000 a year (63 percent) and Latinos (61 percent).
[Showing that when one has an education they are more likely to vote for gay causes.]
The proposition, which passed with 52 percent of the vote, overturned the state Supreme Court's May decision legalizing gay marriage in California. The measure inserts language into the constitution limiting marriage to one man and one woman.
The poll found that, overall, 48 percent of voters oppose the idea of making gay marriage legal. Forty-seven percent support it, while 5 percent are undecided.
The results mirror previous PPIC polls from the last three years, suggesting that the $73 million spent for and against the measure did not do much to change public attitudes on allowing gay couples to wed, said survey director Mark Baldassare.
"At no point in time, before or after the election, did we have a majority of Californians saying they supported gay marriage," Baldassare said. "My takeaway from this is that until there is a major shift in public opinion one way or another, it's going to be another issue where voters are deeply divided."
Geoffrey Kors, executive director of the gay rights group Equality California, said the PPIC poll demonstrates that same-sex marriage advocates "need to make inroads in every category. If 2 percent of voters had voted differently, we would have had a different result," he said.
The poll was based on a phone survey of 2,003 California voters in the Nov. 4 election who were interviewed from Nov. 5-6. The sampling error was plus or minus 2 percentage points.
If very person that has marched in a protest had been a registered voter, and had voted NO ON 8 it would be legal to marry in Calif. today!
MESSAGE: Register to vote and vote on ALL issues, gay and non-gay. Write to your State Legislature members today! Write to your U.S. Congress members today! And write them often! The more they hear from registered voters the more likely they will support our position.
Apathy gets noting done!
THIS is why the world thinks so lowly of us! People! READ what you are writing! Keep on the subject! Don't make it 'personal'. We do not want to hear about your drama, your issues, your shortcomings. We want viewpoints on the salient issue: GAY MARRIAGE! YES or NO!
Getting married is a very serious commitment, both in the gay world and the straight world. Just because one 'hookups' and gets a boyfriend du jour does not equal lets get married. Dating someone and loving someone are vastly different things. Dating is about getting laid! Loving someone unconditional, is forever! This is why one gets married!
Read the community property laws in CALIF before getting married! Pay attention to the words PRE NUPTIAL agreement! LOL! Everyone that gets married is "in love" but that changes very quickly, just look at divorce rates! Marriage is not to be taken lightly! Gay Marriage is a very serious issue!!!!
I still wonder how many of the protesters that have marched are registered voters? AND how many of them actually voted on Prop 8 ???? Don't get me wrong, I am indeed FOR Gay Marriage!
Why should straight married people suffer alone? Currently "Gay Divorce" is 'Honey I changed the locks' look for a place to live!
BTW I understand a protester was shot and died at the WeHo protest. Was it worth his life????
The PROTEST should be writing to your Legislature members, to the Governor, to City Councils, to the folks that have the power to enact laws, and most importantly being a registered voter and vote on every issue, not just 'gay issues'. Be a good citizen first a foremost. Understand ALL the issues. You may not feel some of the issues directly affect you, but I assure you, anything on a ballot affects every citizen! VOTE VOTE VOTE
I do believe when you say so many of us are getting infected with HIV and soooo many of us is doing waaay too much TINA. I'm surprized myself that i haven't come into contact with this horrible drug. It's surprizing to me and im thankful that im not SUPER hooked onto it although its still a major problem in my life.
Although we may do drugs and we may have AIDS it's STILL WRONG to deny us MARRIAGE. Because if i'm still alive and i find a boyfriend i sure am going to walk right in that courthouse with crack pipe in one hand, truvada in the other, boyfriend at my side and getting my ass married!!!!!!!!
You hit the nail on the head! Your English is much better than my speaking your native language!
UNFORTUNATELY the 'gay' community is very 'sad' and divisive! We cannot get along with each other, so how in the hell are we supposed to get along with the straight world? We do not support one another's businesses [except gay bars - which by the way RAGE is NOT gay owned! Never had been! and guys spend thousands of dollars there!] Once upon a time we were "Gay", then it became Gay & Lesbian, then we added "Bi", then we added "Transgender". What is next? Dividing into sub groups, then sub sub groups etc. and then adding another letter in the acronym. Are marriages legal with a trans gendered person? Technically one is male and one is female????
Fact of the matter is drugs and alcohol and rock and roll are the norm, especially with 'new gays'. "Attitude" is only prevalent in very large USA metropolitan cities, you do not see it in smaller cities or towns. Not typically Internationally. Being a "Bitch" seems to be modus operandi of younger gay guys. No intelligent guy over 30 will dish it out or take it from anyone!
As a employer I will not tolerate it for one second! If I see it or hear it the "Bitchy" person gets the pink slip that day! No fan fare! Just we do not need you anymore. Most of the very bitchy guys do not have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out! After they lose jobs and/or lose friends who will not tolerate it, they sometimes wise up. Often too late. Young and Pretty does not cut it in the real world if you are bitchy.
Someday people will learn a few things: get along with other people to get ahead in life; be eager to be nice and helpful to your friends and coworkers and you will succeed; the better person you are, the better person will be attracted to you! I was somewhere the other day standing in line and there was this drugged up young bitchy boy making a total fool of himself. When it came his time to enter the establishment, the doorman did not allow him into the venue! The line actually applauded! Love that! He was outside ranting and raving and I hear his was arrested for public substance abuse! YEA! Like it or not boys Drugs will kill you! and you will lose your friends and probably your job along the way.
AA DA are everyday at the Log Cabin on Robertson Blvd. near Melrose. Give it a try!
In order to have Gay Marriage approved permanently in California or all over the country, we have to prove ourselves and show to the world that Gay Life is not just about promiscuity, sex, drugs and parties. I?m sorry to say this, but most of our community is F&ck up in the head right now!!!, more than 50% of gay guys are doing Tina, Cristal, K, ?.etc and sleeping with everybody and a lot of them practicing unsafe sex and sometimes not by choice because the drugs don?t allow them to think clearly and a lot of them get infected with HIV.
Have you seen what happens when gay guys do drugs or heavy alcohol? They can't even feel emotions anymore and they become immune to feeling love and responsibility and they can't hold a relationship because the GAY.D.D. Takes over. (gay attention deficit disorder).
Many are living their lives in big drama by choice because that?s the only way they can feel something since they don?t trust anybody and that?s very sad!!. That?s why when we go out to bars we find many gay guys with a lot of attitude because they are insecure inside and they cannot focus on the priorities in life and so they be mean as a self defense mechanism. That?s wrong! We cannot be in our 30?s, 40?s, 50?s and even 60?s years old and thinking that being gay means ?SEX, DRUGS AND DISCO?.
Does anybody live in the real world?
Let?s prove to society ?YES WE CAN? be responsible and focus.
We have been stereotyped as being ?SEX, DRUGS AND DISCO?. And it?s very unfortunate, especially here in L.A. where Hollywood has such a big influence on most of our community and people become materialistic and emotion less.
I heard people asking: "What different makes gay marriage if they keep behaving in the same way and with a ring in their hands and go to after hour?s club and live their lives on the edge?" Come on Guys! Wake up!!!
To see our dream come true with Gay marriage we have to change our image my friend! We have to change! And take life a little more seriously. Its all about our priorities to balance our entire life.
Remember ?moderation in everything is the answer! Take it easy guys!! Take it easy!! And be cool!!!!
English is not my first language! But? Do you follow me on this discussion? Hopefully I made a point!
Love u Guys! I always will!
Apparently the black community, gay and straight, has made Prop 8 a racial issue instead of a 'marriage issue'. Why does it need to be a racial issue? One can "hide" their sexuality but one cannot hide their blackness. One can "act straight" --- that makes me laugh crazyily -- where is "Acting Straight 101" offered.
Are we so ashamed of our gayness that we have to "Act Straight" Give me a break. Where your mouth goes makes a truer statement, not what it has to say. Read any of the websites for guys looking for guys... on the DL and they post their face pic! Normally straight but I want a guy to fornicate with 'just tonight'.
PLEASE! Give me a break! Many gay black guys hang out in the 'hood' until they have had a few drinks then they head to the gay bars, bathhouses, etc. when their inhibitions are down and they are ready to 'get down'. Quit hiding behind monikers of any kind. Be YOU! Whatever that may be, just be YOU! Red Yellow Brown Black or White. If you find someone desireable then go for it, HOWEVER If you are rejected don't scream racism! It COULD be that YOU are not desireable to the object of your overture! Let it alone and move along and find a new target. I assure you, not everyone hits 100%! Some people like similiar to themselves, some people like opposites.
I have a lilly white friend that will not take a second look at ANYONE except Latino's and Arabs. PERIOD! And he is a good enough looking guy that he could probably get almost anyone he wanted, but he prefers what he wants! NO exceptions.
Personally I prefer someone of a like cultural background. A lot less hurdles to overcome! Many ads on sites specific what people are looking for in a playmate. Some do not care, they get want to get laid. Because YOU are not desireable to the whole planet, look at improving youself instead of pointing fingers!
We are a very diverse society and we certainly have fringe societies within the "gay community". Some of the things I have seen are just horifying to me, but to that ilk they are the norm. Work on yourself!
Dam proud, I did not say that I went to an ivy league school to showoff, I was merely responding to a prior post that had suggested that I went to a fringe school. If you read the entire thread, you would know that. I have never tried to belittle anyone.
"B.K, I did not go to a fringe college. I went to a very liberal Ivy League school in New England. And I was astonished at how the gay community there treated people of color."
"liberal" probably has nothing to do with this. Don't you think their attitudes are more reflective of not having been around enough black people to form reasonable opinions of them? Isn't it pretty white out there?
"Lastly, you say that the law is supposed to be blind to race and sexual orientation. I think you are wrong there. Race and gender are protective classes under United States Code. Race and Gender are addressed in the United States Constitution(eg 13th, 14, 19 Amendments) There is no mention of sexual orientation. In fact, federal courts have held that it is not a protected class as are race and gender. SO the premise that the law is blind to orientation, I think is wrong."
Not referring to the federal level, this is California.
"I am not saying that it should not be a goal to try to achieve equality among all peoples. However, I am saying that you cannot keep insisting that I live with being a fringe member of this community on the one hand and support it on the other. You continue to trivialize everything I say, but it just goes more to the point that many, of course not all, gwm, are exceedingly caught up in themselves. On numerous occasion, many minorities, myself included, have attempted to point this out as a point of concern, and I have never once seen a gwm acknowledge it as a legitimate concern. But much the same way you may feel marginalized in society as a whole, we feel marginlized in the gay community. If you just cannot get that, I don?t think you should hope for solidarity anytime soon."
I'm not trivializing what you are saying, I'm pointing out how racial issues are not in competition with marital issues. If you happen to be a minority within a minority, there's nothing that can be done about that. If you have one leg where the majority have two, blue eyes when the majority have brown, it's no different in that you will stand out due to your differences in appearance. That's life. Fetishism to some degree of any minority under the sun is inevitable. The best way to handle it is to make it work to your advantage, rather than bemoaning not melding seamlessly with a bunch of gay clones.
"I do not dispute everyone?s right to be attracted to whom so ever they choose, but the fact that I have to emotionally prepare myself to be called nigger or black shit every time I approach a guy who is not of my race is a blemish on your community, in my opinion."
Okay, right there, at least here in Los Angeles is a bunch of crap. You are acting as though all or most people would do that to you, when in fact it is just a small percentage of a-holes. Why are you so concerned with a small percentage of a-holes in the first place? And don't try to tell me that it is not just a small percentage of a-holes doing that, because there are plenty of black people here who do not share your opinions.
"The fact that many minorities are not interested in other minorites also is a problem because many times it is founded on a notion of inferioty. I had many friends in college who projected that aura."
You are obviously scarred by your time in New England, and things are clearly not right there to put it mildly. The bottom line is people need to stop nitpicking over which discrimination is real and which isn't, which discrimination is more important--it is not a contest! We should all do our own part to oppose discrimination in every form.
It is very clear that some people just go through life with a chip on their shoulder. If one has such a high and mighty degree from a Ivy League school, so what? Does THAT make you a better person that others who may have gone to a State University? NOT! You went to an Ivy League school but apparently you did not get an "education". One has to be proud of themselves. The "person" you are inside makes you the person you are outside.
If one is sad and bitter and self hating inside, then one will be a sad and bitter and self hating person outside, and nothing will make you happy. Make oneself a happy person and work on making people around oneself more accepting. Because one has a Degree from an Ivy League school does not make that person "better" than the next! Because you drive a BMW or Benz or whatever, does not make you a better person. Because one might have outward "good looks" does not make them a better person! Concentrate on being a better YOU!
Work on your own issues before attacking other people. Has that Ivy League degree put you in the upper echelons of the corporate ladder? If not, on what do you 'blame' that you are not up there? Do you blame the fact you are gay? or maybe a person of colour or too tall or too short or whatever other 'excuse'? NO! the reason is clear: you are unhappy with yourself and that image comes through loud and clear in the workplace.
Success is based more on your attitude and ability to do the job than your Ivy League degree. Sure, the degree may 'get you the job' initially, but if yo do not perform, then you are ousted or shuffled around until you leave of your own volition. Concentrate on being a better person, concentrate on being a better employee, concentrate on being a better member of your community. Copping "Attitude" gets one nowhere! Become a better YOU before trying to change those around you. One is not desirable to everyone else, so what! Get over it and find someone desires what you have to offer. Enough already with the whining.
Concentrate on helping other people: feed the hungry, get people off drugs and alcohol, help the needy, make yourself a better person and you will project a better image to society.
Be kind and considerate to other people.
B.K, I did not go to a fringe college. I went to a very liberal Ivy League school in New England. And I was astonished at how the gay community there treated people of color.
Lastly, you say that the law is supposed to be blind to race and sexual orientation. I think you are wrong there. Race and gender are protective classes under United States Code. Race and Gender are addressed in the United States Constitution(eg 13th, 14, 19 Amendments) There is no mention of sexual orientation. In fact, federal courts have held that it is not a protected class as are race and gender. SO the premise that the law is blind to orientation, I think is wrong.
I am not saying that it should not be a goal to try to achieve equality among all peoples. However, I am saying that you cannot keep insisting that I live with being a fringe member of this community on the one hand and support it on the other. You continue to trivialize everything I say, but it just goes more to the point that many, of course not all, gwm, are exceedingly caught up in themselves. On numerous occasion, many minorities, myself included, have attempted to point this out as a point of concern, and I have never once seen a gwm acknowledge it as a legitimate concern. But much the same way you may feel marginalized in society as a whole, we feel marginlized in the gay community. If you just cannot get that, I don?t think you should hope for solidarity anytime soon.
I do not dispute everyone?s right to be attracted to whom so ever they choose, but the fact that I have to emotionally prepare myself to be called nigger or black shit every time I approach a guy who is not of my race is a blemish on your community, in my opinion. The fact that many minorities are not interted in other minorites also is a problem because many times it is founded on a notion of inferioty. I had many friends in college who projected that aura.
Today 11-24 the Wall Street Journal ran a editorial piece about prop 8. This person wrote about gays doing bad things and threatening the "brothers and sisters" of the Mormon church then molted the story to partial abortion and some other negative things not related to prop 8 to create a anti gay news piece. This person was obviously anti-gay. When you see distored news like this send the newspaper a email.
"B.K once again you are not listening."
Yes, I am. Which is more than most people do for you, and for good reason. Nobody wants to put up with a bitter malcontent regardless of their race.
"It is not about whehter or not people find me attractive. How dare you tell me that it is the same for me except that a portion of gay society does not find me attractive."
Yes, that is it entirely.
"When you turned 18, went to college, and began to explore the possiblity that you were gay, did you have men repteadely telling you no Niggers? Do you have even classmates doing that? It is the rule rather than the exception to be either called a racial epithet or to be objectified as apiece of dark meat, who, of course, hand to be horse hung and f*** like crazy."
I'm sorry you went to one hell of a freaky deaky college, it sounds like it would make for an interesting book. Might be therapeutic for you.
"It is sort of like what another post says about businesses in West Hollywood. The post suggested that gays should force out of business establishments which on the one hand take money from gays and supported proposition 8. Well isn't that similar to wanting minorities to show solidarity with you when you fight for marriage rights on the one hand and wanting to exclude us from every other facade of gay life?(e.g. clubs, gay magazines, or even gay porn)."
No. It is not the same at all. Legal rights and your very narrow superficial criteria for what constitutes acceptance have nothing to do with each other. The law is supposed to be blind when it comes to race and sexual orientation. Individuals' personal sexual preferences are their own and do not need to be justified to others. Including you.
B.K once again you are not listening. It is not about whehter or not people find me attractive. How dare you tell me that it is the same for me except that a portion of gay society does not find me attractive.
When you turned 18, went to college, and began to explore the possiblity that you were gay, did you have men repteadely telling you no Niggers? Do you have even classmates doing that? It is the rule rather than the exception to be either called a racial epithet or to be objectified as apiece of dark meat, who, of course, hand to be horse hung and f*** like crazy.
It is sort of like what another post says about businesses in West Hollywood. The post suggested that gays should force out of business establishments which on the one hand take money from gays and supported propistion 8. Well isn't that similar to wanting minorities to show solidarity with you when you fight for marriage rights on the one hand and wanting to exclude us from every other facade of gay life?(e.g. clubs, gay magasins, or even gay porn).
Ricco, you are comparing apples to sausages. You are included in that you have just as many rights as any other gay person. But just because a percentage of the gay population does not find you physically attractive, does not mean you have less of any right. Nobody of any race is somehow entitled as a legal right to be found attractive by all. Sexual preferences have nothing to do with sexual rights. It's pointless discussing this with some bitter self-centered person like you who is just looking to point fingers for problems you yourself cause. The gay community is hardly causing its own problems wanting the same legal rights as heterosexual.
Well B.K you say I am a gay Uncle Tom, but I think that is quite presumptuous of you. I mean, how do you know the extent to which I may have been marginalized by your gay comrades? If they do not embrace me, then it makes me think that the fight for so-called marriage equality is hypocrisy. You cannot tell the world that marriage equality is about being inclusive and allowing gays to be full participants in society on the one hand and on the other largely deny whole sectors of your own community. Every time I suggest that we be introspective and consider what plagues the gay community itself, I am dismissed. So, to put it simply, if you all do not care about my problems, then why should I care about yours?